Lately, I’ve been thinking more about misogyny among gay men. I used...

Lately, I’ve been thinking more about misogyny among gay men. I used to believe being gay automatically made me a better ally to women. It doesn’t. We grow up in the same patriarchal system, absorb the same ideas, and often reproduce them. Just in different ways. In many gay spaces, women barely play a role. That absence can turn into indifference, sometimes even contempt: the casual body-shaming, the jokes, the dismissal of women’s experiences. None of this feels extreme in the moment. But that’s exactly the problem: it‘s normal. Unlike straight men, we don’t depend on women romantically. That can make it easier not to think about them at all. But in a world where women still rely on male solidarity, that indifference becomes a form of complicity. Misogyny doesn’t always look like hate. Often, it looks like silence, laughter, or disinterest. And if we’re honest, we’re part of that. Recognizing it isn’t about guilt. It’s the minimum requirement for change which is desperately needed.

kanesphantom

Thank you.

4 months

aphrodite.aphroditus

Yes. This.

casbahmike

Well put! Though like a lot of gay men, in general, I get along better with women than men and I definitely find it easier to make friends with women. My best long term relationships besides those with my partner and immediate family, are with women. I can’t really put my finger on the reasons why. Maybe making male friends is harder because if you strike up a conversation, they assume you’re coming on to them. If they’re not gay or if they’re just not interested, the conversation will end there. If you’re in a committed relationship and can slip that in early in the conversation, it’s sometimes makes things easier. But gay men can be as thoughtless as anyone when it comes to standards of beauty and the role of women. Think about how many men are in the fashion industry and creative arts, designing clothes that only look good models who are size 0 or less, creating art that overlooks women past a certain age, etc. Gays can also be brutal to our own! I’ve seen guys make brutal digs when someone they find unattractive, or who’s not stylishly dressed, tries to join a conversation. They often say that women past a certain age become invisible, but it’s also true of elderly gay men. It’s a real problem if they’re not in a relationship and don’t have family (or maybe they are estranged due to their sexuality), because there is no one to care for them.

Writing this reply made me think of two songs I think are really powerful: Hello in There by John Prine https://open.spotify.com/track/4pudt2SlHUyucWCbInTw3N?si=k-YFioFrTmez9LtkReWjWw and Be More Kind by Frank Turner https://open.spotify.com/track/1AN3Ljpu2jB6fgtWAyU3oW?si=YgYrJ6s5QPieN1Fd_8QTcQ

gino.table

@casbahmike thank you! I can totally relate to what you’re saying about female friendships. Not only in terms of quantity, but also in terms of depth, I find my relationships with women more meaningful than those with men in my life. I think there are many different reasons for this, and as you mentioned, I also find it difficult to pinpoint exactly why. However, this doesn’t necessarily translate into conversations among gay men, where the immense importance of women in our lives is often overlooked or at least not acknowledged in moments when jokes are made about them etc. Your point about fashion and other forms of art overlooking certain women is absolutely right and reflects this as well. I also think the other issues you raise are important, but they touch on different topics. But to quote one of the songs you shared: „[…] we can no longer say for sure who’s drowning or if they can be saved but when you’re out there floundering like a lighthouse I will shine be more kind, my friends try to be more kind […]“ Since we know so well what it feels like to be „floundering“, overlooked, laughed at, or worse, by a heteronormative system, shouldn’t we be more sensitive about it when the same happens to women?

Short answer, yes! Absolutely, we should be more sensitive! 100% You’re quite fair in saying that my reply touches on different topics. Sorry about that, but I think the way women are treated is related to the struggles of anyone who falls outside of the chauvinistic systems that not only dominate the world today, but which are becoming even more oppressive by employing a manufactured narrative that casts them, (heterosexual, white, christians) as the victims. Nothing could be more absurd!

Btw, thanks for such a thoughtful reply! I appreciate the engagement.

@casbahmike no need to apologize, thank you for engaging and taking the time. I agree with you :)

Wish you were closer! Would love to talk about all this in person! Of course, I love Berlin, so maybe I’ll visit.

djkevingraves

💯

2 months

kahojakeleung

Well said. My friends are women for sure. They are like my family:- mum, sister, auntie, grandma. I don’t like women that way, only a friendly way and we have the same subjects like men, shopping, sewing and so on. But, for men it is hard for me to be friends with guys due to their sexual attraction and not wanting to give out wrong signals too! 💔 💔 💔